A view of Ramsgate from West Row, including No. 14, J. L. Davies, grocers (closed 1976) and No. 15 Brown and Wallace, wholesale drapers(1938-1970) c1960 
Picture Stockton Archive
A Pictorial History of Stockton-on-Tees
A view of Ramsgate from West Row, including No. 14, J. L. Davies, grocers (closed 1976) and No. 15 Brown and Wallace, wholesale drapers(1938-1970) c1960
Picture Stockton Archive 
In my toolbox, inherited from my late father-in-law, is a pencil. It is the type of Joiner’s pencil, I.e. triangular with trader’s name embossed upon it. The Trader is “J.L. Davies & B. Brooke, 14 Ramsgate, Stocton (sic), Tel.66259 Gurney Street, Boosebeck, Tel. Skelton 450”.
Googling these details produced nothing about the trader immediately but did pull up the 1960’s photo plus correspondence string, in which reference is made to these tradespeople. Maybe one or more of the correspondents in the string might be interested and have further info re them and their shop. Reference in the string seems to be made to Grocer or to General Store.
I hope this snippet is of interest to anyone with local knowledge as I am a “foreigner” from East Yorkshire, now living in Leeds, but with no immediate connection to the Stockton area.
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Hello. My name is Sandra Dover. Does anyone have any information about my great grandad Issac Harland? He was a hay and straw merchant in Ramsgate.
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I believe the photo referred to by Heather Wilkinson is ref t9453.
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I have been told that the corner of West Row opposite Dobsons was once the first Post Office in Stockton before Dovecot Street. There was a clock there above the door, somewhere on this site is a photo of it and, although it is in a sorry state, you can see the clock.
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Does anyone know anything about 15 Ramsgate before Brown and Wallace started in 1938?
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north esastern distributors where a firm in its own right selling bathroom suites and sanitary ware its head office was based in carliol square newcastle j.d.thompsons where always that as i recall they used to put orders in for their customers i used to process the orders for the warehouse to distribute hope this helps
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Yes, J.D.Thompsons was in West Row. I bought most of my tools there as an apprentice sheet iron worker. The first thing you did on starting work was to make your own tool box, in your own time. Arthur Brown put me with his father in law “Pa” Forrester whom I admired and feared in equal portions. He gave me a sketch to follow and found the scrap plate then showed me how but I had to do the work myself. Arthur Brown then told me to go to Thompson”s and buy my tools one at a time, he would foot the bill and stop it off my wages of 13/4 a week. This wage was soon increased to £2/10/0 as I was working a small guillotine and bending former to make shelves for ships lockers. I had worked out the best way to cut the aluminium sheets and then bending them using jigs and stops. It all came to a grinding halt when the foreman told me I was earning too much and he was cutting the rate. “Oh no he was not says I” and shelf making ceased at which point I was sent home to stew on the error of my ways. On the second day Arthur”s car stopped outside our house, Arthur walks in, “where is he Glad” he knew mother well. Get in the car, get back to work at the same rate and do not cheek the foreman. I soon filled my tool box with tools that lasted for years. “Pa” Forrester had been brought out of retirement for the war years and was an old Boiler Maker of the best kind. He gave me homework night after night on top of my Night Schooling, making templates for every kind of steel forming. It was all Maths geometry trigonometry and Calculus. I had to show him all the working out to prove I did not get the measurements from the Engineering calculus book tables. Next morning I would be worried I had got it wrong as he fitted sections together and checked them, he had quite a heavy hand if it was ear clipping time, I did not get many though. Thompson”s were there into the 1950″s but I had moved on and lost track so cannot say what happened. I do remember them as an Aladdin”s cave of tools and ironmongery with that smell associated with those stores, an oily tarry musty smell as they also had ropes and chandlery in my time. The training we got, that has gone, and the stores that serviced those small industries disappeared leaving the town a sadder place.
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I seen to remember hardware tools and builders items being sold in a firm called JD THOMPSONS in West row around where the fire station was – was this later called North East Distributers? Can anybody remember the place about 1960 or before.
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I wonder if anyone remembers North Eastern Distributors in West Row? I worked there in 1967 when the Stockton black day happened. I was the telephonist and it rained so much all the electrics went out but every phone rang on all 3 floors – it was very frightening. It would be nice to hear of anyone who remembered this old place which was situated opposite the Blue Post Alley. As a young girl of about 16 the things I saw from the window of the office was pretty raw to say the least!
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The public house reffered to by Bob Irwin was the Royal
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Can anyone tell me where 22 West Row once stood or still does?
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Every Saturday my dad would line-up in the queue outside Ellis” bakery to get two large loves of white bread… he always asked for the most burnt-top examples they had… I seem to remember that if you got there after 11.00, then the shop was stripped bare… and that meant it was “plastic bread” for tea.
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My grandparents were the landlord and lady of the Blue Post in the early sixties. i got my love of whiskey from them. dipping my dummy in it!!!
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Stories of my Grandfather Robert (Bob Nicholson) indicated that he had been the publican of the Blue Posts Stockton My research show it could have been between 1929 – 1932 previous to that he had The Brass Finishers Arms at 2 Allisons Street Stockton. Does anyone know who owned the Blue Posts or have any information?
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Browsing your wonderful site and spotted a comment from Gordon Mann regarding the “Barnes Newsagent” this was my nana”s shop (Amanda Barnes) and the place where my dad, Harry was born in 1926! Sadly he died in 2005 and I so miss not having him around to ask about places and people in Stockton. I do know the place only had gas and my dad used to knock his head on the mantles! he was 6″4″. The shop used to be pretty busy as there used to be a few hotels in Stockton and nana used to supply them with papers apparently. I remember helping myself to sweeties from the front window display when my mam & dad left me in the shop when visiting nana on Saturdays! Happy days.
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In the 1960,s my uncle Ray Duncan used to own Ray”s barber’s shop in Ramsgate the shop was next to Enricos cafe to reach the shop you had to walk up a corridor which lead to the barber’s and also a watch makers shop. Many customers will remember the tropical fish tanks on the wall of the shop; there was a large tank at the front in between the barber’s chairs, which was always a talking point. I worked on Saturdays sweeping up and running messages going for the endless cups of tea/coffee from Enricos cafe I also became friends with John Davies at the corner shop when I bought our chocie biscuits.
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I used to go to Ray’s for my crewcut in the 60s
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Dobsons Glass Dealers on West Row was once a fish shop with seating upstairs for sit down meals. I know this because my great grandfather George English and his wife Jane owned it until about 1936. I wonder if anyone has a picture or can remember the fish shop
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Lisa, I have done some research on my family tree. In the 1851 census my 4 times Great Grandparents (Eden side) were living at 18 West Row. My 3 times Great Grandparents were living with their daughter Annie Maria Eden at 102 West Row. So this is a very interesting sight for me.
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Ged, My Grandmother Hilda King was born in Stockton on tees in 1917. Her mother Emily Bartel had a brother called Charles William Bartel who was born at 7 Ramsgate Stockton. I am reserching my family tree and have found out that the parents were Annie Maria Eden and William Bartel. Annies parents were Ann Hutchinson and Sampson Eden. I am wondeing if we are distantly related?
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Moira, I”m hoping you have solved a puzzle for me. I have two deaths 1884 / 1885 both at 9, Park Row. On 1861 census they are living at 9, Yarm Lane. I”m wondering now if that is in fact the same dwelling. Did you find the 1857 map online ?
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Thanks Stan, I”ll have a look at the map. The 10yr old servant just shows as Mary Foster/Forster – Servant. Head of house Garthwaite. Could of course just have been staying the night. Where might a groom, living in West Row have been employed, at an inn ?
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An 1857 map of Stockton shows Park Row. It is the row of properties that is now Yarm Lane, from the High Street to West Row. In other words from the Grey Horse to the Garrick!!!
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Sandra Humble: The location of Ropery Street was (is?)off the west side of the Stockton High Street between Regent Street (now an alley between what was Littlewoods and Marks and Spencer) and Wellington Street. Park Terrace South was between Holy Trinity Churchyard and Bridge Road but I can”t remember seeing Park Row on any of the maps. If you are asking could a 10 year old be a domestic servant in 1861, probably yes, figures taken from the 1851 census indicate that there were 10-14 year old girls in domestic service in England and Wales. Was she employed at that address or was that her occupation at another address?
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I have two death certs. 1864 / 1865, present at one death was J.A. Garthwaite, 29 West Row. If still standing what is there today? On 1861 census that address shows as Ropery St. does that make sense? Also listed was a 10yr old servant girl. Is that feasible for 1861 and at that address where the Head was a Groom ? Both deaths were at 9 Park Row which I am unable to locate other than like West Row it came under Holy Trinity. So many knowledgable people here, hope you can help.
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At the junction of West Row and Ramsgate, what was the name of the road opposite Ramsgate and what did they call the pub on the R/H side of this road? I was responsible for its closure in 1970. I was in the Police Force (Licencing Dept) when the Brewery were claiming redundancy. It was my job to see how many customers were in the pub each day. At times when I was in there I doubled the attendance. The Landlord at that time was Sid Whaley
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I used to work in the ASDA in West Row, from 1973 to 1976 and 1979 to 1993. That when it closed down, the building is now Boyes. I do remember the Blue Post Yard with the Blue Post Hotel as it was called then. For many years I used to put rubbish in the skip on the car-park and remember the old stables because the the Hotel was a old coaching Inn. Also the old fire station across the road and Maddox”s Farm Stores. You could smell the oats and farmstuff. I think there used to bag it up in the stores in Prince Regent Street. They used to talk about tunnels that ran from West Row to the River Tees. How true that is I don”t really know. Maybe cellars. On the Friday & Saturday nights some of the staff in Asda used to pop in the White Hart Inn in Dovecot Street opposite the Farm Stores. We had some great nights in the back lounge. I remember the snug and the smoker”s room, how times have changed. The bar was a proper Man”s place and I remember the pint of bitter was 14p around 1973 time. Lager then was only starting to come in and then it was really a lady”s drink.
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My family were butchers who lived in 14 West Row and later 11 West Row from 1851. I was amazed to find this photo and the reference to the grocers shop being number 14.
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Has anyone got any pictures or know of were there are any of Leslie Browns or the Asda at West Row. I was very young when they where there and can only just remember them.
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Just visible on the colour photo (click on view image reference: s201 )is the end wall of the Corporation Hall never as popular as the Maison or Palais. Alongside this hall was the warehouse of Leslie Brown, of Toy Shop and record fame and from 1980s home of the “Happy-Wanderers” street-organ van and puppets. I worked with Leslie and Cyril Hay visiting venues as far apart as Newcastle and York. While Leslie took his show to Germany, Belgium, Holland and the Channel Islands, on many occassions. It was the Warehouse that was a facination for Leslie could never throw anything away, “It”ll come back in fashion” he”d say and boxes of toys littered stairways, floors, shelves and cupboards. Forts, prams, boxed games, dolls, hundreds of unopened boxes of toys, gramaphone records and equipment. You name it, it was there! All were sold on the closing of his shop in the late 1990s
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I have answered some of the questions here on the “Palais” photo page. It”s fascinating how they overlap. Tony Spence did play as goalie until he broke his elbow. Thereafter he couldn”t straighten his arm enough.
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Thank you Doris for the very sad news of Tony`s recent death.It just shows that not all comments made on this wonderful site can bring a happy smile of good times recollected after many years.
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I am the daughter of Mr.Hugh Brown of Brown & Wallace Ltd. that Doris was writing about. I also remember, John Davis & Ruby Ellis. Opposite the warehouse was Tommy Larkin, (I can”t remember what he did) but he always had a smile. Further down the road was a back street where Mr.Hamburger had an electrical warehouse where Doris and I used to buy gas mantles or light bulbs to sell in the warehouse.
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In response to the question from Ged it is the same Tony Spence. Unfortunately Tony was killed in a road traffic accident in the Hartburn area a few months ago.
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I wonder if Doris Cooke can confirm if the Tony Spence she remembers was married to Brenda Jackson and also played in goal for Richard Hind School football team around 1952. Brenda lived in Londonderry Road and when her parents moved further up the road they became our next-door neighbours. Do you know where Tony is now?
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I started work at Brown & Wallace straight from school in January 1954 at the age of 15 and was there for 6 years. I worked alongside Mr Brown, his daughter Anne and Rose Lloyd. I well remember Ruby Ellis from the bakery opposite and Mr Davies from the general dealers shop in the photograph. Anne and I “fancied” all the young men employed by Dobsons the glazier (whose premises are in the backgound). Mr Wallace acted as a rep for the firm and did all his travelling on public transport. I remember two other reps Tony Spence and later Mr Firman who sometimes let us help him on Saturday mornings delivering parcels in the van.
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I remember Ellis`s bakery well. They used to supply bread rolls to the Red Lion Pub just across the road from them. The landlady Mrs. Watts used the rolls to make delicious ham sandwiches for the customers. On Sundays we were served a treat when roast beef was available, sadly without the delicious fresh rolls. Regarding Mrs. Watts, I am still unable to contact Christine Carter due to problems with her ntl server. I have tried several times.
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I do remember Browns & Wallace wholesale shop, and to the right of them used to be a small newsagents I believe were called “Barnes” I think. The large building in the centre was Dobsons – glaziers. To the left of Davies grocers was a home bakery called Ellis”s
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I have tried to contact Mrs. Christine Carter per email regarding details I have of Mrs. Watts which may help her research into her family tree. Unfortunately my email was returned to me undelivered due to difficulty with her ntlworld server. If Mrs Carter would like to contact me I can be reached per email at G.HUTCHINSON@terra.es
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Mr. Hutchinson I do remember The Red Lion Public House and I am researching my family tree and we think that Mrs. Watts is a relative.
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I remember in the early fifties when I was only five or six going to the Red Lion with my mother who used to clean the pub,and I used to find the odd penny and half penny under the seats,we lived in Brunswick Street then. The Red Lion on Wedensdays is always busy and has a karaoke going on now with some “right” characters in there.
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This photo was taken from outside the Red Lion Pub. Does anybody remember the Red Lion? I remember it as a popular meeting place on Saturday nights for lads to have a quick drink or two before meeting up with the girls at the Maison dance. The pub was also popular with the girls as it was one of the very few pubs in Stockton that had a Ladies Room and the Landlady Mrs Watts was very protective of her charges on Saturday nights. I frequented the Gentlemans Room though I doubt that there were many Gentlemen amongst the clientelle. The pub was mainly used by young people and I can never remember any trouble amongst the young crowd intent on enjoying themselves.
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My father was the Brown of Brown and Wallace. I have not seen this photo before. Anyone remember Brown and Wallace?
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