A (1940’s?) photograph of No.43 Grove Street, which is off Yarm Road near Northcote Street. This building is still standing and still looks pretty much the same.
The building to the right looks like a workshop, still there and currently for car repairs, and can we see the letter “T” and maybe the “Y” of “TYRES” in this photograph? Behind and to the left is the boundary wall and a wing of The Stockton & Thornaby Hospital. It looks like No.43 was a pub/shop/off licence, with the original doorway being cut into the corner of the building.
Older trade directories show: 1890 – George Raw, beer seller, 1914 – William E. Shaw, beer retailer. Now, if it was a pub? did it have a name?
Photograph and details courtesy of Jonathan May.
Great how this photo has inspired so many memories and remarkable that with the destruction of most of Stockton’s Victorian licensed premises that it is still standing today.
If I may I would just like to clarify the confusion over the terms beer seller and beer retailer. These terms are one and the same. In the late Victorian era there were three categories of premises that were licensed by local magistrates to sell alcoholic beverages.
1- Fully Licensed ( able to sell beer, wine and spirits to be consumed on the premises). Commonly termed a Public House.
2- Beer License ( Able to sell beer, but not spirits, to be consumed on the premises). Commonly termed a Beerhouse.
3- Beer Retailers License ( Able to sell beer that was only to be consumed off the premises). Often referred to as a Grocers License.
This is where the most recent term “Off License” comes from. These premises were usually commercial properties which could also sell other non alcohol related goods. They had to display a black board above the door with the licensees name on it as was the case with Public Houses and Beerhouses but they usually didn’t have a name sign like a Public House or Beerhouse.
Generally Beer retailers were tenants of the property which was either owned or leased by a brewery and as such they normally sold just products from that brewery.
I lived more or less directly opposite that shop from 1964-70, in number 38. Seem to think my mother worked in either that one or another shop at the other end of the road, but it was a long time ago
The garage was run at the time by a chap called Eric who had a hand missing and got by with a hook, used to scare the life out of us kids. My dad used to drive a bread delivery van for Hunters bakery round on Bowesfield Lane, his patch was the village shops of the Yorkshire Moors. Parents met at Davy/Ashmores/Power Gas where he was in stores and she in the typing pool! I went to Richard Hind infants briefly before we moved to Norton in 1970.
Still drive past Grove Street almost daily on my way to work…
Replying to myself, bad form I know… ;o)
I checked with my mother (Kathleen) and she did indeed work in that off-licence around 1969/70, she forgets the name of the owner but apparently he would ‘watch you like a hawk’ while serving. They sold a lot of sweets as well as alcohol, she says.
While I’m on, my father always wanted some big American car but could never find one, so instead in ’69 he bought a 1959 Mercedes 300D limousine, which was formerly owned by Lord Bradford or some such. Known as the ‘Adenauer’ after the German chancellor who used one, it was longer than the Grove Street house was wide and must have raised a few eyebrows when he dropped my mother off in the High Street to get some shopping, complete with two lads under 6 and a baby in a ‘Tansad’ pushchair…! We moved to Norton so the old man could have a garage to put it in… but he didn’t measure the driveway and it was too narrow for the car.
I lived on Woodland Street from 1955 to 1967. My mom had the general dealers store at number 23. I don’t remember the business you’re discussing but my friend Lynne Firdy lived on Grove Street ( I lost touch years ago) and we both went to Grangefield Grammar
I lived in Woodland Street in the 50’s and the Raggy Back was cobbled at first, but later it was tarmacked over to make it quieter for the hospital. Oh dear it was perfect for roller skating, what the patients thought about a horde of noisy kids roller skating up and down i don’t know but we did enjoy ourselves.
I lived in Woodland Street and remember this being a corner shop. It was right on the alley which we used to roller skate up and down. There was a back door to the hospital at the end of Woodland Street
Thanks for all the comments on this photo. I’ve seen a suggestion elsewhere, but anybody know where the “Raggy Back” name came from?
Supposedly the name arose as at one time there had been was a type of pawn shop at the bottom end, close to Edwards Street, where the poor took their better pieces of clothing in exchange for coppers and were left with only “with the rags on their backs” as they left the premises.
With regards to the off licence, the first people I recall going back to 1940s/early 50s, the name of the owner above the entrance door was Gunn, I remember the gentleman and the fact that they had a “scottie” dog…Scottish Terrier.
It was W A Gunn in the 50’s we used to buy soft drinks there but he would only serve you if you had the correct change. He also stamped all his returnable bottles with his initials to stop you taking any other bottles back.
43 grove street Used to be an off licence. Selling beer, spirits, cigarettes, etc. Next door was a car Repairs garage.
The off licence was known locally as the offy. On the raggy back.
We Used to live in Woodland Street, this building was an off licence / corner shop during the 1960’s. The entrance was on the corner of the building, facing onto the back alley at the back of Stockton & Thornaby hospital.
I lived in St Cuthberts Road from 1945 to 1970. I remember the corner of Grove Street on the Raggy Back end being a off beer license.
At that time beer was often sold from private houses (as opposed to ‘public houses’) so it may not have been a pub. I bought a terraced house in the 1970s which was built in 1894 and the deeds contained a covenant which restricted owner’s from selling beer from the property or Sarah Armstrong (the first owner) ‘had the right to have the house demolished’. The far downstairs window of No.43 would suggest it was a pub, or was it converted to be.
I lived in Grove Street for the first 10 years of my life (1968-78) and I do recall there was an off licence at that end of the street by the garage well until the mid 1970s I think because from memory I’m sure it caught fire one night and closed after that – I do remember a lot of noise and my late mother telling me about it the following day – great photograph!
My Grandma & Uncle had this Off Licence in 60’s. They were called Ann & John Turner. The shop was commonly called The Raggy Back. They sold draught beer and people brought their own jugs to buy a few pints. I was a young teenager & regularly stayed there when my Mum looked after the shop during their holidays.
Hi Sandra, thanks for adding those memories from you family’s history with No.43, your comment about the draught beer really brings the place to life! 🙂
Hello Sis! (Sandra is my sister!)
So, I too spent a lot of time here when I was still at Junior School. I remember it had a cellar, so surely it was a pub at some time in the past. Used to enjoy going down to the bridge at the end of Spring Street to watch the frequent trains coming out of Stockton Station. I’d have a long wait now…..
For info, our gran went there after running the Harewood Arms (with Grandad Tom Turner) in Thornaby, and from Grove Street she and Uncle John moved on to run the off licence on Gray’s Road in Stockton, where they built up a great reputation for sherries that were sold from casks into bring-your-own bottles.
Hi Stuart, I did wonder about that when Sandra mentioned those names… it’s a small world as I lived at the opposite end of Grays Road and can remember visiting Turner’s Off-licence for sweets, probably on the way to Ropner Park with my Nana. I think it took up most of the ground floor at that time, with a large counter and lots of shelves filled with bottles of wine etc. If I remember correctly your uncle John was a tall man (or was it just that I was shorter back then?). I always think of it as the best example of an off-licence that I ever visited.
I remember the off licence on Grays Road, The man that owned it was, as you say, extremely tall, and had a very deep voice. I seem to recall that a relative of his had the shop next door, which sold fur coats and the like. This would have probably been in the mid 60s.
Hi,
Just stumbled across this looking for some family history, turns out your grandad Tom is my great grandad, his son Tom is my grandad. I have great memories of my grandad but never got to meet his father. Would love to know more about him, his wife, his life, etc.
Thanks,
Craig
Hello Craig
Just picked up your message from a few years ago re Raggy Back and Turner family. I am Sandra, sister to Stuart who also commented. Tom, your grandad, I believe is our Uncle Tom. Our parents are Syd and Jenny Bell (nee Turner). I have very fond memories of Uncle Tom & Auntie Florence. When Alan (another brother) and I were young Uncle Tom was in merchant Navy and brought us lovely presents back from his travels. They were both my favourite aunty & uncle. I remember Grandad Tom from Bowesfield Hotel and Hardwood Arms. He died in early sixties. If you would like more info, please get in touch.
We lived at nbr 43 from 1970-72. My mum Jean McRoyall owned it & I loved living there!
It was a huge house with attics, a cellar & stables in the back yard in which she stored the crates of beer that Vaux brewery delivered. The shop was at the front of the house with a small storeroom immediately behind.
Mrs Spedding, a lovely old lady who lived opposite, could remember when it was the big house on the street with servants & horses much earlier in the century.
I remember Mam selling the Walls Funny Face ice creams mentioned elsewhere here!
When Dad had to go into Stockton & Thornaby Hospital for an emergency operation, we could wave to him from the bathroom window at the side of the house once he was able to sit outside the ward in the gardens (I think gardens, but def outside the ward) recouperating.
The back alley between the hospital and No.43 Grove Street was known locally as ‘the raggy back’ in the seventies. We lived in (New) Camden Street. I remember as kids we bought Walls Funny Face ice creams from there. I always thought it was an odd place to have a garage. When the hospital was being demolished we used to hold impromptu cycle speedway meetings in its grounds about 1974/5. There was a lot of demolition going on in the area at that time as one side of Northcote Street and Adderley/Waverley/Stafford/(old) Camden/Arlington were all demolished to make way for a school and St Cuthberts was standing derelict when we moved to live near there in 1971.
My grandparents lived on Northcote Street and I have a distant memory of an alleyway running behind the hospital that was known locally as “the raggy back”, I’m sure there was an off licence of sorts that we used to buy lemonade, crisps etc from…..could this be the place?