I started as a messenger in 1960, Percy Roberts, (4th. from left, front row), was in charge during induction training. Apart from the terror of going on a United bus from far away British West Hartlepool to the Green and then just inside West Gate to the huts, the next most frighteneing thing was the PHONE. I had seen one but had never used one. Part of the training was to pass a message from one room to another. One read out the message on the phone to another boy who wrote it down. There was then the humiliation of verbally passing this on to one of the instructors. “Send three & four pence were going to a dance” or “Send reinforcements…..” you get the idea. I was based in WG 3? building and delivered to packing sheds and numerous places as far away as the Wharf, CCF and ADO. 2 weeks after starting I fell off my bike in the rain crossing the multi-rail loading point near to the Grange. “Wet rail sleepers” I was following my friend McVeigh my trainer and fellow messenger. He raced over to me, now in a heap and lifted me up, unfortunately by the arm that was broken. I said “by that HURTS” and he went for help which was close at hand in the Grange Farm house. I was off work 7 weeks, unable to fit a plaster on a complex break. This was used in induction training for a long time as what NOT to do, I got a lot of stick for that. But no-one questioned why they had employed a messenger boy who had NEVER ridden a bike before starting work, nobody asked me 😉 The start of a very happy working life, sorry I can”t remember McVeigh”s first name though.
Ralph Burnett Seyburn: The book on Billingham by the local author Francis Gerard Owens was published with, I believe, the help of Stockton Borough Council who awarded a £300 grant to help in the production of the book. I received my copy from a friend in Stockton in 1995 and I believe that she purchased the book at Stockton`s Green Dragon Museum. To my knowledge the author has penned at least seven local history books but unfortunately I have no details of the publishers. Perhaps our good friends at picturestockton could help you to do that. As a local lad (once upon a time) I thoroughly enjoyed the Billingham book.
Most interested in obtaining the book named “Billingham from earliest times to the modern day ” written and researched by -Francis Gerard Owens. As recommended by Ged Hutchinson
Re Reading the Messenger Boy items reminded me of my first weeks at ICI, when we were inducted into the Company, they took all the new Messenger Boys around the various Plants explaining what the Plant was producing. On one occasion I asked question, you were encouraged to ask question of the various Plant Managers who were explaining what the Plant did. I asked one Manager what the cost of a large crane would be that we were looking at ?, the Apprentice Trainer in charge of us ridiculed me and sneered at me, why do you want to buy one. Strange that in later life my chosen profession was that of a Cost Engineer, dealing with just such pieces of equipment as part of my job. I often thought about that Apprentice Trainer as being not as clever as he thought he was, and maybe I was showing an interest that that was to be a major part of my future life.
I was a messenger boy at Billingham on Nylon Works from September 1957 to April 1958 before I did my apprenticeship. Some of the messages above might lead people to think Cassel Works and Casebourne Works were the same place. Casebourne was the cement works down near the River Tees behind the Transport Garage. It became Blue Circle Cement when ICI sold it and removed the ICI letters from the ICI roundel, leaving a blue circle. Happy Days!
I was very inerested in Barry Robinsons paragraph on Barry Butler. Barry Butler and I were friends from the age of five and I can relate to all the comments from B.R. Who”s band the Les Barry sound was the best around. Of course I knew Barry”s family his parents have passed away but his sister Nina lives near Yarm. Barry was also a very good cricketer and in my opinion could have played at the highest level. I knew Barry”s wife Thelma and stayed with them in Norwich. Thelma is now married to Granville Cooper, one of our gang .
I was saddened to read about the death of Barry Butler in a car accident. I knew Barry very well as I grew up with him. He lived in Wren Street very close to the Victoria Football Ground and I lived in the next street Norfolk Street. At the end of Norfolk Street was a common on which we would play cricket. We would draw stumps on the end house in chalk. Barry even at his age of about 10 years showed great athletic ability with both bat and ball. At weekends we would all go to Ropner Park and play football and this is where Barry really excelled. he had a lot a natural ability and even then I knew it would be just a matter of time before Barry became a professional footballer which he did with both Sheffield Wednesday and Norwich City. I often wondered what happened to Barry. His death must have come as a great shock to his family.
I do remember Barry Butler Benny and I am saddened to hear that he is no longer with us. Obviously you kept more in touch with your old home town and friends from your adopted home in South Africa than I did in my adopted country of Germany. Sadly this is not the first time that I have learned from this website, rather belatedly, of the death of people I knew in my earlier days in England. However, just reading other peoples memories of friends and aquaintences we have in common is sufficient to revive many happy memories of my childhood and growing up in England before my self imposed exile.
Talking about Messenger boys and footballers at ICI, Ged you would remember Barry Butler who was from Richard Hind School who was in this category, Barry went on to become a qualified Electrician at ICI before turning to full time Football with Sheffield Wednesday whom he captained. I played football and Cricket with Barry at Stockton and was terrbly distressed in hearing of his death in a car crash while I was living in South Africa. Barry had just been named as first team coach at Norwich City when he was killed. Barry was a great all rounder and was the only person I can think of that deferred signing as a full time Professional footballer to complete his apprenticeship and make a success of it.
My Father worked at Casebourne”s in the 50″s and I remember him telling me that Brian Clough had worked there but whether he was messenger boy or clerk I don”t know.
Brian Clough joined ICI when he left school but failed the apprenticeship test and ended up being a messenger boy instead of training as a fitter & turner. He started playing football for Billingham Synthonia and Great Broughton. After being seen scoring goals for the non -league teams he was spotted by Middlesbrough who took him on for £7 per week in November 1951 aged just 17. He became a full-time professional in May 1952 but did not make his League debut until September 1955.
You may be right Ged about Brian Clough being a messenger boy at ICI, But I played football with Brian as a Junior, he played for Sutton United and North Riding I played for South Bank St Peters and South Bank Juniors,and North Riding, and Brians Job as a Weigh Bridge Clerk was what he was doing all the time I knew him through Junior football, and he never mentioned being a messenger boy only a Junior Clerk. Brian was the same age as me, and we both signed for the Boro about the same time. Brian signed as Full time Professional, but my father would not allow me to sign as a full time pro saying you have to get your trade first and your qualifications. Looking back he was right but at the time it was hard for me to understand his logic. In those days Wilf Mannion and George Hardwick were earning the maximum wage of twelve pounds per week. A tradesman was earning about six pounds per week, I read somewhere that Stanley Matthews never earned more than twenty pounds per week, so there was not much chance of becoming a millionaire from playing football. Different now a days. When I asked why I was being offered a welders labourers job and not an apprenticeship I was told that they expected me to become a professional footballer so they did not expect me to be staying in the long term with ICI, a strange excuse in my opinion. I was lucky that Head Wrightsons gave me the opportunity for my trade training and education.
I was never a messenger boy myself but the very informative and readable book entitled “Billingham from earliest times to the modern day” written and researched by Francis Gerard Owens states that Brian Clough was indeed a messenger boy on the Casebourne`s Plant. I can recommend this book to anybody who has an interest in local history.
I worked as a messenger boy in 1950 for approx 6 months, ICI then offered me a job as Welders Labourer, which I promptly turned down and applied to Head Wrightsons Apprentice School where I was welcomed with open arms by Mr Harry Soppet MBE. who was the Manager of the Apprentice School. I do not think Brian Clough ever worked as a messenger boy but did work at ICI Cassel Works as a junior clerk in the Weighbridge office. I remember a Mr Roberts and a Mr Dennison as being in charge of the Messeger boys in their introduction period to ICI.To Colin I do not think Derek Banks ever worked for ICI but developed a very prosperous Painting and Decorating company on Teesside.
Looking at this photo, pity we cant have a higher resolution scan. The dress looks very 50s. I note by the number on the photo that it must have been a small intake. I worked as messenger boy for 9 months before my apprenticeship. 5th from the left back looks a bit like Derek Banks, I am not sure if he was a messenger boy but I will ask him.
Teesside had many school-leavers aged 15 and these boys had to find employment for a year until they were 16-years-old and eligible for an apprenticeship. ICI took these boys on as messenger boys and paid an extra sum of money if they used their own bikes to get around the massive Billingham complex. One of the more famous messenger boys was Brian Clough who did his stint on the Casebourne`s Works in 1950-52. As the picture is dated 1951, I wonder if Brian is featured. Does anybody recognise faces on this photo?
Does any one have photos of either the mesenger boy intake of 1957 or apprentice intake of 1958
I started as a messenger in 1960, Percy Roberts, (4th. from left, front row), was in charge during induction training. Apart from the terror of going on a United bus from far away British West Hartlepool to the Green and then just inside West Gate to the huts, the next most frighteneing thing was the PHONE. I had seen one but had never used one. Part of the training was to pass a message from one room to another. One read out the message on the phone to another boy who wrote it down. There was then the humiliation of verbally passing this on to one of the instructors. “Send three & four pence were going to a dance” or “Send reinforcements…..” you get the idea. I was based in WG 3? building and delivered to packing sheds and numerous places as far away as the Wharf, CCF and ADO. 2 weeks after starting I fell off my bike in the rain crossing the multi-rail loading point near to the Grange. “Wet rail sleepers” I was following my friend McVeigh my trainer and fellow messenger. He raced over to me, now in a heap and lifted me up, unfortunately by the arm that was broken. I said “by that HURTS” and he went for help which was close at hand in the Grange Farm house. I was off work 7 weeks, unable to fit a plaster on a complex break. This was used in induction training for a long time as what NOT to do, I got a lot of stick for that. But no-one questioned why they had employed a messenger boy who had NEVER ridden a bike before starting work, nobody asked me 😉 The start of a very happy working life, sorry I can”t remember McVeigh”s first name though.
Ralph Burnett Seyburn: The book on Billingham by the local author Francis Gerard Owens was published with, I believe, the help of Stockton Borough Council who awarded a £300 grant to help in the production of the book. I received my copy from a friend in Stockton in 1995 and I believe that she purchased the book at Stockton`s Green Dragon Museum. To my knowledge the author has penned at least seven local history books but unfortunately I have no details of the publishers. Perhaps our good friends at picturestockton could help you to do that. As a local lad (once upon a time) I thoroughly enjoyed the Billingham book.
Most interested in obtaining the book named “Billingham from earliest times to the modern day ” written and researched by -Francis Gerard Owens. As recommended by Ged Hutchinson
Re Reading the Messenger Boy items reminded me of my first weeks at ICI, when we were inducted into the Company, they took all the new Messenger Boys around the various Plants explaining what the Plant was producing. On one occasion I asked question, you were encouraged to ask question of the various Plant Managers who were explaining what the Plant did. I asked one Manager what the cost of a large crane would be that we were looking at ?, the Apprentice Trainer in charge of us ridiculed me and sneered at me, why do you want to buy one. Strange that in later life my chosen profession was that of a Cost Engineer, dealing with just such pieces of equipment as part of my job. I often thought about that Apprentice Trainer as being not as clever as he thought he was, and maybe I was showing an interest that that was to be a major part of my future life.
I was a messenger boy at Billingham on Nylon Works from September 1957 to April 1958 before I did my apprenticeship. Some of the messages above might lead people to think Cassel Works and Casebourne Works were the same place. Casebourne was the cement works down near the River Tees behind the Transport Garage. It became Blue Circle Cement when ICI sold it and removed the ICI letters from the ICI roundel, leaving a blue circle. Happy Days!
Now that name brings back memories when I was a messenger boy Nina Butler worked in Oil works office with Sheila O` Conner great times
I was very inerested in Barry Robinsons paragraph on Barry Butler. Barry Butler and I were friends from the age of five and I can relate to all the comments from B.R. Who”s band the Les Barry sound was the best around. Of course I knew Barry”s family his parents have passed away but his sister Nina lives near Yarm. Barry was also a very good cricketer and in my opinion could have played at the highest level. I knew Barry”s wife Thelma and stayed with them in Norwich. Thelma is now married to Granville Cooper, one of our gang .
I was saddened to read about the death of Barry Butler in a car accident. I knew Barry very well as I grew up with him. He lived in Wren Street very close to the Victoria Football Ground and I lived in the next street Norfolk Street. At the end of Norfolk Street was a common on which we would play cricket. We would draw stumps on the end house in chalk. Barry even at his age of about 10 years showed great athletic ability with both bat and ball. At weekends we would all go to Ropner Park and play football and this is where Barry really excelled. he had a lot a natural ability and even then I knew it would be just a matter of time before Barry became a professional footballer which he did with both Sheffield Wednesday and Norwich City. I often wondered what happened to Barry. His death must have come as a great shock to his family.
I do remember Barry Butler Benny and I am saddened to hear that he is no longer with us. Obviously you kept more in touch with your old home town and friends from your adopted home in South Africa than I did in my adopted country of Germany. Sadly this is not the first time that I have learned from this website, rather belatedly, of the death of people I knew in my earlier days in England. However, just reading other peoples memories of friends and aquaintences we have in common is sufficient to revive many happy memories of my childhood and growing up in England before my self imposed exile.
Talking about Messenger boys and footballers at ICI, Ged you would remember Barry Butler who was from Richard Hind School who was in this category, Barry went on to become a qualified Electrician at ICI before turning to full time Football with Sheffield Wednesday whom he captained. I played football and Cricket with Barry at Stockton and was terrbly distressed in hearing of his death in a car crash while I was living in South Africa. Barry had just been named as first team coach at Norwich City when he was killed. Barry was a great all rounder and was the only person I can think of that deferred signing as a full time Professional footballer to complete his apprenticeship and make a success of it.
My Father worked at Casebourne”s in the 50″s and I remember him telling me that Brian Clough had worked there but whether he was messenger boy or clerk I don”t know.
Brian Clough joined ICI when he left school but failed the apprenticeship test and ended up being a messenger boy instead of training as a fitter & turner. He started playing football for Billingham Synthonia and Great Broughton. After being seen scoring goals for the non -league teams he was spotted by Middlesbrough who took him on for £7 per week in November 1951 aged just 17. He became a full-time professional in May 1952 but did not make his League debut until September 1955.
You may be right Ged about Brian Clough being a messenger boy at ICI, But I played football with Brian as a Junior, he played for Sutton United and North Riding I played for South Bank St Peters and South Bank Juniors,and North Riding, and Brians Job as a Weigh Bridge Clerk was what he was doing all the time I knew him through Junior football, and he never mentioned being a messenger boy only a Junior Clerk. Brian was the same age as me, and we both signed for the Boro about the same time. Brian signed as Full time Professional, but my father would not allow me to sign as a full time pro saying you have to get your trade first and your qualifications. Looking back he was right but at the time it was hard for me to understand his logic. In those days Wilf Mannion and George Hardwick were earning the maximum wage of twelve pounds per week. A tradesman was earning about six pounds per week, I read somewhere that Stanley Matthews never earned more than twenty pounds per week, so there was not much chance of becoming a millionaire from playing football. Different now a days. When I asked why I was being offered a welders labourers job and not an apprenticeship I was told that they expected me to become a professional footballer so they did not expect me to be staying in the long term with ICI, a strange excuse in my opinion. I was lucky that Head Wrightsons gave me the opportunity for my trade training and education.
I was never a messenger boy myself but the very informative and readable book entitled “Billingham from earliest times to the modern day” written and researched by Francis Gerard Owens states that Brian Clough was indeed a messenger boy on the Casebourne`s Plant. I can recommend this book to anybody who has an interest in local history.
I worked as a messenger boy in 1950 for approx 6 months, ICI then offered me a job as Welders Labourer, which I promptly turned down and applied to Head Wrightsons Apprentice School where I was welcomed with open arms by Mr Harry Soppet MBE. who was the Manager of the Apprentice School. I do not think Brian Clough ever worked as a messenger boy but did work at ICI Cassel Works as a junior clerk in the Weighbridge office. I remember a Mr Roberts and a Mr Dennison as being in charge of the Messeger boys in their introduction period to ICI.To Colin I do not think Derek Banks ever worked for ICI but developed a very prosperous Painting and Decorating company on Teesside.
Looking at this photo, pity we cant have a higher resolution scan. The dress looks very 50s. I note by the number on the photo that it must have been a small intake. I worked as messenger boy for 9 months before my apprenticeship. 5th from the left back looks a bit like Derek Banks, I am not sure if he was a messenger boy but I will ask him.
Teesside had many school-leavers aged 15 and these boys had to find employment for a year until they were 16-years-old and eligible for an apprenticeship. ICI took these boys on as messenger boys and paid an extra sum of money if they used their own bikes to get around the massive Billingham complex. One of the more famous messenger boys was Brian Clough who did his stint on the Casebourne`s Works in 1950-52. As the picture is dated 1951, I wonder if Brian is featured. Does anybody recognise faces on this photo?