A view of John Walker Square on Stockton High Street taken in 1974. Photograph courtesy of Brian Kemp. 
Picture Stockton Archive
A Pictorial History of Stockton-on-Tees
A view of John Walker Square on Stockton High Street taken in 1974. Photograph courtesy of Brian Kemp.
Bad News on the CastleGate Centre if they are only going to spend 1.5 million on a revamp. Looks like it could be a Tarting up job. A total waste of money, as the old saying goes ‘you can not make a Silk purse out of a Pigs ear’. I rest my case
Frank Mee That is the problem – those 1960s and 1970s building were often shoddy. The developers threw them up at the lowest possible cost having knocked down substantial Victorian buildings ( built to last ) Delapidation was inevitable with these structures but by the time it occurred the developers were long gone. I mentioned T Dan Smith in my post. He was responsible for the demolition of two sides of John Dobson’s classic Eldon Square in Newcastle for a shopping centre. Smith wanted to convert Newcastle to the ‘Brasilia of the North’. Newcastle is an architectural jewel – Sir John Betjeman described Grey Street in Newcastle as the finest street in England. Viscount Esher in the 60s saved York from the ravages of developers in his report ( too late for Stockton ) I have an interest in architecture and am much involved with the Faculty of Architecture at my University. These architects find themselves much constrained by the needs of developers to cut corners in building construction. Fortunately here they have to go before a Board of Architectural Review and some level of standard is maintained.
When we read the messages on the debates we should have a ‘like’ button as on Facebook because as Frank mentions it is laughable what he reads in the Gazette.
It seems none of us are having the last word on this subject as the Gazette last night announced a 1.5 million revamp of the Castle Centre. It will extend the business area and put in new shopping units. The bit that made me smile was ‘we are desperate for this, it is a delapidated 1970’s building, cold in winter, too hot in summer’. Err yes, so why not start from the foundations up then, looks as if we are stuck with it beyond my life span then.
Dave Day you may have learned to live with the Castlegate Centre, but I can assure that a large majority of Stocktonians will never accept this blot on Stockton if they live to be a hundred. I think the ones that have accepted the development would be the younger generation who would not have remembered the old Stockton where the Castlegate Centre is situated now. I do not live in Stockton now and have not for over fifty years but whenever I visit, which I do on a regular basis, it always gets to me when I think of what has happened there, and what could have been developed there if we had had the proper Designers, Architects, and Project people controlling the project.
Benny, we had a proper developer in Frank Medhurst but his ideas clashed with that of the councils at the time (wonder why when he was competing with a certain John Poulson) and was sacked for his troubles.
There has been a very interesting debate about the old and now new Castle Gate Centre but I don’t think it’s upto the subscribers to act as arbitrators on this and should be left to the PS team for these decisions. I know in fact that this subject will appear again as it has done in the past.
It’s been interesting reading all your comments on Stockton’s concrete time capsule they call the Castlegate however good or bad it is. But as Mr Day quite rightly points out, the people of Stockton have learnt to live with it and moved on, its like wearing flared trousers in the seventies which was great but would you wear them today, no is the answer but we still have them in the draw! There are a lot of town centres around the country with hideous designs much worse than Stockton’s so lets be thankful the powers to be at the time were only trying to progress forward.
Surely it is past time to draw a line underneath the redevelopment of the High St back in the 70’s which was not done well but it unfortunately happened. As a teenager through the late 50’s I spent many happy hours in the Vane Arms and the Black Lion etc and have lots of good memories of those times of living in Stockton, but a lot has changed everywhere since then and it is impossible to turn back the clock. The development did happen and we must learn to live with it. Mistakes were obviously made but that happens throughout life. I can feel for the people who still live in the area but there are many similar town centres around the country and Stockton is not unique in things which were done in the name of progress.
Benny Brian and Bob, I do not disagree with any of you but would draw the line at ‘ugly mess’, not very pretty possibly. Hindsight is wonderful and regardless of the Poulson affair and other fast buck schemes that time was much like today economically, things were hard. I would suppose the then Council would have its eye on things although probably also had their hands tied by Government rules, we can only prove any of this by seeing archives from that time. At least some of it will be put right, we hope, when the Hotel comes down and the new developement is built supposedly to move out and over the riverside to open up that area even more. I did visit many historical town centres and saw them also being left high and dry by out of town developement, a lot of them far worse than anything Stockton has, many better brains than ours are trying hard to revitalise those town centres and failing. We need more close to town housing bringing in more people although whether car owners would walk even that short distance is doubtful, it would need to include a transport system as we once had, the ‘0’ bus every five minutes! Stockton is the sum of the many Council planners and Government restrictions, we cannot turn back the clock and these days we do get a say in things, whether any notice is taken of our say is yet to be seen. During my travelling years I was always glad to get back to Stockton and never saw any other place I could have put down roots, hence I still enjoy living just a couple of miles from where I was born and spent my first 18 years, doubt I will move on any time soon.
Frank I do not argue with anything you say about the development of the Riverside, which I deem to be of the best quality in design, workmanship and materials. My only gripe is the Castlegate Centre. A total mess in all aspects of design materials and workmanship. When you visit centres such as the Trafford Centre in Manchester or the main centres in Australia you realise how the people of Stockton have been short changed, or may I say robbed by the developers of the Castlegate Centre. It is like comparing a third world town centre with Stockton rather then a modern day city development. Thank goodness the people who were responsible for the Castlegate centre had no part to play in the development of the Riverside, which ranks in world class for design, materials and workmanship. Stockton can be very proud of what has been achieved in this respect, but they will always rue the day the development of the Castlegate Centre was allowed to go so far off track. A note on the flower displays in Stockton in the summer, a first class show Stockton, and I am looking forward to viewing this years display when we arrive late May.
Bob, I take your point and yes would have joined in any discussion about it, I do not think we were asked. Looking through the picture section of the Town easily found on the Google section I came across quite a good picture of that particular section and what struck me was not the couple of fine facades but the rest of what looked and in my memory were tawdry buildings. How the couple of fine looking fronts would have fitted into a more modern outlook we cannot tell. Look across the other side of the town where most of the old buildings still stand and see the odd rebuild among them, to me and that is only my opinion they look unbalanced and with some of them being closed down or shuttered, rather bedraggled. We cannot tell private landlords what to do with their buildings as in the case of the old ICI offices at Billingham, these things have to be a partnership and some of those old landlords could not get rid of the old buildings quickly enough, they cost far too much in upkeep and repairs as it was. I did know Bankside in London and wondered as I saw it stripped out then left for many years derilict why they did not knock it down, it struck me as being so well built it would have cost too much. A diferent era later and a lot of money gave us the new Tate, I say us since I have never been in but probably paid towards it in taxes. That Bob is the rub, are we prepared to pay more tax for such projects and the time they Castle Centre was built inflation was very high, wages for many low, economics can sway many such plans.
I agree with Bob Irwin, Stockton centre is indeed an ugly mess. In my opinion, it wouldn’t have cost any more to have re-built the rear of that side of the High Street and renovate fascias at the front rather than the enormous cost of demolishing all the beautiful buildings and constructing the monstrosity we now have. Don’t forget, a certain Mr John Poulson was the designer of the Castlegate Shopping Centre. In 1973 he was arrested and charged with corruption in connection with the award of building contracts, for which he was later jailed for seven years!
Given Stockton’s history why couldn’t the planners have taken a leaf out of the book of the planners at Stratford-upon-Avon. A well known high street store applied for permission to demolish an old building and replace it with a modern store. The planning department refused to permit the demolition of the building. Instead they insisted that the facade was kept and the new store was built behind that facade. Their argument was that they wanted to keep the frontage to be in keeping with the rest of the street. Certainly the riverside needed tidying up but did the planners at the time consider retaining the frontage of the High Street or did they just think that it was cheaper to demolish wholesale and rebuild? Unfortunately, what happened in Stockton was repeated in many other towns around the country and is still going on in the name of ‘progress’.
Frank, I don’t think anyone can argue with you over the beauty of the river and the riverside on both sides but we have been left in the town of an ugly mess. I can’t see that when it was decided to improve the town centre at the east side that the money which would be spent on that centre could and should have been used to clear up the back of the buildings and keeping the fascias at the front. In this day it is not hard to such work. Recently in London they changed a power station which was called Bankside Power Station into the New Tate Gallery. A lot of work was done to the inside but the outside was left as it was. I know this as I worked at this Power Station in 1961 and have visited the Tate since. We know we don’t have to live in the past but wouldn’t it have been nice to involve the public in what they were doing. Just a few notices in the paper , news letters asking for views and ideas. I know Frank that you would have liked that and would have been involved.
Benny, we may not like what was built and we may well hanker after what once was, only nostalgia has a way of white washing over the dirty bits. I had reason to walk right round town yesterday with things to do both ends. Parking in Bishop Street car park and walking onto the footbridge over the Ring Road I saw it as I once knew it and as it is now, I know which I prefer. The old wharf the filth as the tide flowed in and out twice a day the rundown waterfront across the river and further along past the flower mills. Then the long rows of what became known as slums, no baths coal fires and many living in crowded bedrooms, it is no wonder everything we did then was outdoors, there was no room inside. Walking back and along Finkle Street looking across the River to neat housing beautiful foot bridges and the modern College what an improvement that all is. The river is now a clean place for water sports and at a constant height, no smell as it once did and apart from driftwood coming downstream from up river no mess plus we can now have a pleasant cruise up river to Yarm you could not do that when I was a lad. Inside the Castle Centre it was crowded and people bustling around shopping socialising and sitting in the Cafe’s as I did later for my bacon sandwich and coffee watching the world go by. Warm dry and pleasant, then across town to the Wellington Street complex, nowhere near as many people in that custom built area, some empty shops and open to the weather. Did the shopping in M&S then sat outside on the seats near the greyhounds which always make me smile though some would dump them, the wrong outlook for Stockton ‘says who I ask’ a pleasant open High Street again busy, buses where they should be in the centre of Town whisking people to and from the estates and a lack of cars, there are plenty of places to Park off Street even if you have an athritic knee, it is not far to walk to the main shops. In years to come someone will ask why they are knocking down the Catle Centre they remember as kids teenagers and marrieds, and those of us who remember gas lighting, a single cold water tap, no bathrooms if still around will wonder why the fuss. As I walk out of my lovely new shower in my lovely new warm bathroom, I have no wish to go back to a tin bath in a cold wash house or the toilet up the garden although unlike some around it was a flush, the shops that had butter and cheese on one end of the counter and parafin at the other end. Things change and my attitude is thank goodness it is for the better, after all we could all still be living in roundhouses had people not wanted change, living in the past is not an option for my grandchildren.
Have to agree with the last comment from BB, perhaps the buildings were in a bad way but how did the planners get away with building such a monstrosity in its place. any building built with straight lines always looks boring in my opinion, perhaps that was the favoured design in those bygone days but come to think of it they are still being built these days.
Frank, the back of the buildings may have been in poor condition and the fronts passed saving but that does not excuse the standard of buildings that were put up in their place, the design, the materials used, the workmanship, the finish ( what finish!) and everything to do with these montstrosities that Stockton have been lumbered with. There is only one solution that is to demolish the whole of the Castle Gate Centre and re-build a modern shopping complex on the lines of the Trafford Centre in Manchester, a magnificent example of British design and workmanship.
I would think most older Stocktonians would agree that the rear of the premises on that side of the High Street were extreme if not just down right dangerous but it’s a pity a survey doesn’t appear to have been done to maintain some of the frontage. Expensive!, I am sure, but that is where a huge part of the character of the High Street was. It was well known that those buildings towards the river side were vermin infested so change was not just inevitable but needed.
Linda, the people of Stockton did not get much say in what happened at the time. The buildings on that side of the High Street were in very poor condition, if you went round the back of them the area looked as if it had been war damaged then left, it was all pretty well run down. One day in Town walking towards that area which was by then fenced off as the builders were having to remove the old building a sudden crash and cloud of dust the complete front of one building came down, luckily although it flattened the fence no one was on the pavement under it. The government was handing out grants and incentives so I would suppose the then council would say lets do it, most of the owners of those building would be glad to get rid of them, the expence of bringing very old buildings back up to scratch after many years of neglect would have emptied their pockets. It is a pity modern technology cannot show those buildings as they were at the time, we have to rely on those of us with memory of it all, that memory tells me the money nor the will to save those frontages existed then. Long years of war followed by long years of austerity had sapped the will to keep the old, there did not appear to be much discussion about it but copies of the Gazette back then could shine some light on what actually did happen.
Why oh why did the people of Stockton-on-Tees let this happen to our once wonderful High Street? The new 1970s buildings were, and still are, an eyesore. Sad to say we can’t turn the clock back to those wonderful coaching inns the people allowed to be demolished.